Drowning Again

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Drowning Again

Postby HUD » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:02 am

1st Mix-No Drums.mp3
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Y'all didn't really think I'd invest all that tunesmithing into a song and not eventually have my own go at it. New key (obviously), with guitars and bass that've largely forgotten what they'd done the Peeve go 'round.
No drums in this mix...wondering whether I like it best without'em. Played to the old drums, but they need work if I'm gonna have them in. The b/u vox (unison doubled) are under the lead, similar to the Peeve version, am thinking I'd still put an over-harmony for the last verse to the ending...also some more lead of the type that's at the intro.
As I returned across the lands I'd known
I recognized the fields where I'd once played
I had to stop in my tracks for fear
Of walking on the mines I'd laid
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby HUD » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:35 pm

well gee Dan, I just played this in my car and I think the bass is too boomy right now. If there was a drum kit that bass might seem better maybe. Don't know that that harmony part is right, maybe it's the fact that you eq'd out too much bottom then seemed too chicken to give it the dB's it would need.
Definite potential but needs work...and drums, or percussion of some sort.
Like some moody-ass feminine side bullshit going on with them lyrics too...suck it up.
As I returned across the lands I'd known
I recognized the fields where I'd once played
I had to stop in my tracks for fear
Of walking on the mines I'd laid
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby cjdenecia » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:08 am

shutup and grow a third testicle danny. call it pat. (short for Patience D. Hudelson)
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby Peevette » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:48 am

Well Dan, I apologize for not seeing this post earlier. Damn homework and life....the nerve. It appears you have the patience of a flea...

This version is far moodier than the original. I'm hearing a few clashing chords that don't seem to fit. IMHO the back up vocals sound as if they hurting more than helping your lead. The tune seems so long, it tends to drag a bit with this tempo. Listening on my lap top, so I have no real good reference for boomy bass comments.
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby Krispy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:16 pm

So...it only takes The Archbishop 8 hrs and 33 minutes to get uncomfortably needy. I'll make a note of that.

I dunno mate. Like Peeve said, it seems too long. There are times during the verse when one begins to grasp the meaning of 'eternity'.
On the other hand, the chorus is quite dramatic and captivating when it comes. I also felt like you lost the thread in the emotional delivery.
I need to listen a couple more times before I truly make up my mind. Tough to re-cover and lever people out of their preconception.

And yeah, we've all been there luv; when if your song thread's so empty it's got cathedral reverb. :roll:
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby cjdenecia » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:35 am

hmmmmm .... some songs adapt seemlessly to being done in a different key than the original version. some don't. I get the impression, this song suffers from effects of the of the latter. and some singers - tho completely competent - sometimes don't handle certain melodies and songs as comfortably as others.

no matter what I said about the drums in the first version - good or needing work, this version suffers badly without some sort of drummage. it lacks a leading flow and can't seem to attract any feeling at all in my rhythm bone. it's a large void. real large. as if the whole bed is made up of soloists with no base. too many chiefs, too few indians.

and the key change .... it seems to have been turned from "edgy" to linear and non-descript. with little variation and little emotional dynamic. part of that is due to the lower register male vocal line being so low to midrange delivered and there being little tonal variance in it ... technically, the performance is flawless but that still isn't really working. (meaning the original was a combo of song and performance success)

I suppose I am predisposed to the original with peeve's vocal being so powerhouse and this version seeming so tame and tentative. I'm just not getting the same urgency and edge here. I recall telling her that I would have preferred more grit than volume out of her and in this version - with you, lacking that is just pretty much inexusable and leaving me thoroughly unmoved. I would have expected YOU to bridge the emotional rollercoaster of the words with a breath to a growl in this midbari register.

to the playing .... acoustic is sweet enough - tho doesn't sparkle with highs and doesn't resonate as well as it might ... bass is a bit boomy but hits the mark well. tones are there - maybe just not as predominately as they could be.

I dunno, I'm struggling hard to like the song in this context but it's not really working out. like this is the demo and the original is the finished project. what can be done? dunno - besides add some killer drums, eq some more diverse frequencies in and sing it waaaaaaaay more passionately.

glad you waited for feedback?
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby HUD » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:37 pm

Krispy wrote:So...it only takes The Archbishop 8 hrs and 33 minutes to get uncomfortably needy. I'll make a note of that

....And yeah, we've all been there luv; when if your song thread's so empty it's got cathedral reverb. :roll:


gadzooks woman, it was 20 hrs 33min! Part of the reason for my pathetically needy and impatient follow-up post was due to the car listen (first time w/o headphones...never share prior to listening on speakers, kids). Although a similar pieces as my recent "Dream a Little Dream", not matching up well at all in comparison.

About the "lack of passion", I was trying to go with a mellower, less dramatic delivery. I guess if I end up at boring then that needs to be re-thought. Funny about the key, I'd earlier worked on this, playing in A, but with a capo on the 2nd fret. Can't seem to find my bleedin' capo (I own just the one), and thought playing in A would be fine. Guess I could look again for the capo or buy another, coz I can handle some more range up top. Or I could speed all the tracks up to the pitch, loose some boomy bass, add some guitar brightitude...nah, that's just silly. It is currently at the same tempo as the other version.

Do have to wonder if people's expectations are too much tied to the earlier version, which I was trying not to copy in approach, thinking more like an unpluggy kinda thing. But we'll see how that ends up.

I do greatly appreciate the input.
As I returned across the lands I'd known
I recognized the fields where I'd once played
I had to stop in my tracks for fear
Of walking on the mines I'd laid
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby Peevette » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:44 am

HUD wrote:Do have to wonder if people's expectations are too much tied to the earlier version, which I was trying not to copy in approach, thinking more like an unpluggy kinda thing. But we'll see how that ends up.



I don't think expectations are the issue here, for me anyway.
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby steban » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:01 am

I just listened again to the original. Then the new one. And it occurs to me, what the new one needs is a peevette duet. You have left plenty of room in her range, and she could hijack the lead with a strong counter melody that wouldn't be the original melody at all, might be even better. Duets are always cool. I find your voice appealing in its relative subduedness, might make a good solid base for a peev harmony. I can feel that mix being potentially very beautiful and emotional and different, but what the heck! It is still a very meticulously crafted song whose weakest point is maintaining a compelling connection with the listener, but it drifts into very dreamy places bordering on romantic, and that's what needs to come out the most, the deep existential meaningfulness of it all.

The drums? I wasn't thrilled with the original drums, so maybe try something else out, but I actually like the without and might prefer the without.

You have a bold creation here, HUD, and tiny adjustments could make a surprising difference.
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby Krispy » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:47 am

HUD wrote:gadzooks woman, it was 20 hrs 33min!

Oh yeah. It was 3 a.m..
Alright then, your neurosis underdeveloped. :mrgreen:

Hud wrote:Do have to wonder if people's expectations are too much tied to the earlier version

That'll always be a problem. It's why I was disappointed by the new Woman In Black.

I think my main 'issue' with the song (either version) is the intro-like beginning which ends up feeling like a long speech. Nothing really changes - to the uninitiated ear - until we're one and a half minutes in. Having said that, for me one of the strengths of the first part of the first verse (and I guess the last part of the last) is its nakedness and simplicity. With no backing vocals, like a lone voice in the wilderness. Only thing there being that I don't expect a bass to be that busy that soon (if at all). I expect two highlights per bar at the most.
And I couldn't help thinking that your backing vocals are too close in tone and time to the lead, adding in some way to the busy-ness (you not being a man fond of tightness 8-) ), and therefore perhaps having Peeve bringing in some subdued oohs and ahhhs - or echoes of words - instead would thicken it all up nicely without too much spreading. I mean, you could give her an unplugged sound so you could keep that feel.

I do really like what the guitar does at "Can't pull myself ashore...". Very lovely, that is.
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby Krispy » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:51 pm

54 hours, 3 minutes. :para:
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby HUD » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:09 pm

:lol:
you're off by :01!
I'm definitely processing some ideas here, but also sidetracked as usual.
As I returned across the lands I'd known
I recognized the fields where I'd once played
I had to stop in my tracks for fear
Of walking on the mines I'd laid
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Re: Drowning Again

Postby Krispy » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:40 pm

HUD wrote:I'm definitely processing some ideas here

Bloody Hell man. Some of us are coming pretty close to not caring you know.
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