A few questions/comments

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A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:48 am

Hi all!

I'm new here, so please forgive me if this has been covered already...
I've clicked on the FAQ link and got to a 404 page :(
You should really fix that, the site is a bit mysterious for newcomers, especially the fact that there is this forum and the audiopolis.org front site... I'm not quite clear what the relation is between the two...

First off, I really like the idea of this site, and the review process in general. I'm coming from another forum, where we very often review peer songs (openly), but with a focus on audio engineering mostly (although advice on arrangement are often given as well). The songs are not finished yet and the OP is usually asking for advice on the mix. This one is different and quite cool as well.

Your site sounds like a great idea and your blind review system is very well thought of.
I just reviewed a dozen+ songs to get a feel of it, and so far I find the process rather interesting...

2 questions/comments though:
- I didn't see any way to comment on a song that you are listening to. As much as the blind review is a great thing, I think being able to review a song you like would be beneficial as well: imagine I listen to a new song posted, and I like what I hear, but I also have some suggestions (either production or arrangement, or anything that could help the poster), I see no way of doing that... Or am I missing something?

- The blind review system doesn't tell me the name of the song, nor can I see the lyrics. I think that would help.
English is not my main language and I often like to read the lyrics of songs I don't know. Otherwise I might be missing a bit. A simple link to the lyrics (when they are provided) could be a good thing IMHO. Especially since one of the free criteria is 'lyrics'. I wouldn't be able to rate that confidently without being able to read them, I'm afraid...

Anyway, that's just 2 little things that I thought of while going through the review process.
It looks like a nice community and I look forward to be part of it.

Keep it up!
-Patrick
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby HUD » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:24 pm

Welcome to Audiopolis, Pat!

That comment about wanting to see lyrics during the review process reminds me of the same discussion we had at the now-defunct garageband.com forums, whose review process this one most closely emulates. There were indeed quite a lot of reasonable arguments as for why lyrics should be present during reviewing. The rationale most often given as for why not, was that we are evaluating this recording of the song. Hearing a song is essentially a listening experience. The singer enunciates or fails to enunciate, and how well the production picks up his words are important criteria in grading the song. Printed lyrics might be considered a crutch, helping the song that couldn't properly convey its message through the listening process. Since many of us haven't supplied lyrics with our songs, the competing song to be showing lyrics might also be considered as giving it an unfair advantage.

I second the idea of being able to give comments about a song of our choosing that might appear on the song page. Perhaps after the artist's approval.

Great to be reading your articulate reviews. You're doing quite well even if English were your first language.

Dan Hudelson
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:25 pm

Hi Dan,

I don't see why you would need the artist's approval to review songs. Isn't that what the site is for?
If you're not willing to get your songs reviewed, why upload it in the first place???
Don't complicate things that don't need to be.
I think there's already too much blocking things on this site (moderation for newbie is another one), when you need more members...

As to the lyrics, there is a criteria which is 'lyrics', which is different IMO to 'intelligibility', one asks about the value of the lyrics, the other about the way it's sung. I've reviewed a few songs already where 'lyrics' was one criteria, and I didn't really paid enough attention to them, nor did I want to listen again TBH :D
So I just chose a middle value, which is probably not fair... but there you go.
I suppose 'lyrics' should only be a selectable criteria for the band only if lyrics has been provided, and in that case, I maintain that a link would help.
A small thing, but it's a combination of small things like that that can make it worth coming here and doing/getting reviews.

Cheers,
-Patrick
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby cjdenecia » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:58 pm

HUD wrote:Welcome to Audiopolis, Pat!

That comment about wanting to see lyrics during the review process reminds me of the same discussion we had at the now-defunct garageband.com forums, whose review process this one most closely emulates. There were indeed quite a lot of reasonable arguments as for why lyrics should be present during reviewing. The rationale most often given as for why not, was that we are evaluating this recording of the song. Hearing a song is essentially a listening experience. The singer enunciates or fails to enunciate, and how well the production picks up his words are important criteria in grading the song. Printed lyrics might be considered a crutch, helping the song that couldn't properly convey its message through the listening process. Since many of us haven't supplied lyrics with our songs, the competing song to be showing lyrics might also be considered as giving it an unfair advantage.

I second the idea of being able to give comments about a song of our choosing that might appear on the song page. Perhaps after the artist's approval.

Great to be reading your articulate reviews. You're doing quite well even if English were your first language.

Dan Hudelson


.... pat ... and hud ....

I suppose, sometime down the road, we might engage in discussion regarding showing song lyrics on the review form but I'm gonna be honest here and tell you that I don't think it'll wash. for all the same reasons I would have voted against it in the past. yes, it comes as a disadvantage to those whose first language isn't english but I truly think that it's part of the song's presentation/production/performance points to be able to express the words to the point where the artist feels necessary. making it somewhat unfair in some ways. listen, REM rose above the inability to be diction-ready, so should we be.

but we might entertain the discussion again down the road.

as far as comments on the song page ... I do think the template allows for it but we hid and disabled that feature at the onset. if enough people are interested, once a number of other issues are solved/fixed/created, we can look into it - and hopefully, it'll be band toggled. but all of that only after gregg is able to work down the imperative workload.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:50 pm

Fair enough cj. And I agree that there are probably much more urgent matters...
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby Krispy » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:33 pm

If I could see the song's lyrics, I wouldn't be able to do misheard lyrics jokes.
There's also that bloke here who's got songs in Spanish; those lyrics would be equally meaningless to me.

I think a middle value for unintelligible lyrics actually is fair.

Hope this isn't all sounding negative. I just think there's nothing quite like a totally blind listening experience.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:45 pm

You might be right, but then I think the criteria for lyrics should be 'intelligibility'.
I agree that a blind listening experience is a good thing though.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:10 pm

I just noticed a small thing: you need to 'subscribe' to a post to be notified of new posts.
This should be automatic, especially for a post I created, but also for any post I've commented on.
It should be opt-out, not opt-in... People need to keep getting attracted back to this site/forum.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby cjdenecia » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:29 pm

ptalbot wrote:I just noticed a small thing: you need to 'subscribe' to a post to be notified of new posts.
This should be automatic, especially for a post I created, but also for any post I've commented on.
It should be opt-out, not opt-in... People need to keep getting attracted back to this site/forum.


believe it or not, once upon a time, here, that setting of opt in was actually a bit of a pain in the ass. then, a few years back - the forum was soooo active that it became an email clogging feature. depending on your participation, obviously, you could be getting 20 to 30 emails a day and it sorta sucked.

but you're probably right and we will consider reversing it.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:32 am

Getting 20 to 30 emails doesn't suck. It means you've taken part of 20 to 30 discussions, you should be made aware that there's some new comments.
I get at least that daily, probably more from recording review, but it's really easy to make a rule in most email clients to push that into a folder to consult when you have the time. Once again, you want people to be attracted back to the site and feel that they are part of something.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby HUD » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:13 pm

might be an individual's preference setting whether or not he receives the emails.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:38 pm

I just thought of something else (yeah I do that sometimes! :D).
How about a monthly mailing, with links to new songs uploaded and a reminder to review?

Here's a (Velocity style) template idea:
Code: Select all
Subject: Hear what you've missed on Audiopolis...
Content:
<h2>There has been $count new songs since your last review of $dateOfLastReview</h2>
#foreach($song in $newSong)
   <p>
    <a href="http://www.audiopolis.org/music/$song.band/$song.id"><img src="http://www.audiopolis.org/images/$song.image"> $song.title</a>
  </p>
#end
<p>You can review songs here: $linkToBlindReviewPage</p>

Something like that.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby cjdenecia » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:35 pm

ptalbot wrote:I just thought of something else (yeah I do that sometimes! :D).
How about a monthly mailing, with links to new songs uploaded and a reminder to review?

Here's a (Velocity style) template idea:
Code: Select all
Subject: Hear what you've missed on Audiopolis...
Content:
<h2>There has been $count new songs since your last review of $dateOfLastReview</h2>
#foreach($song in $newSong)
   <p>
    <a href="http://www.audiopolis.org/music/$song.band/$song.id"><img src="http://www.audiopolis.org/images/$song.image"> $song.title</a>
  </p>
#end
<p>You can review songs here: $linkToBlindReviewPage</p>

Something like that.


an idea worth noting .... I never wanted us to be too intrusive but as it stands, I see that we have to be.
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Re: A few questions/comments

Postby ptalbot » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:04 am

Add an opt out option at the end of the monthly email and people who find that intrusive will use this.
But I'd say that by doing this they are showing that they don't give a fuck about the site, so really I shouldn't worry about them...
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