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Audio Refugees • View topic - so then ....

so then ....

Nicey-nice talk is here.

Re: so then ....

Postby cjdenecia » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:18 pm

you can't handle the truth.

nor do you want to ...
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Re: so then ....

Postby cjdenecia » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:22 pm

you can't handle the truth.

nor do you want to ...
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Re: so then ....

Postby steban » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:38 pm

Well, let's get a few specs together so we can see what can be done.

How large is our current database?

How much bandwidth do we currently have?

How much are we using a month?

Do we require a private server? I don't think we currently have that!

It is cheaper now than it ever was, and hundreds of dollars is not out of the question.

And do not dis GoDaddy. They offer a variety of plans, and allow for a lot of expansion. Even a shared server plan might be sufficient for a year!



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I'm quite happy to do what I can, cj, and $500-600 is probably a good number, probably a year. I am not rich, but I'm not poor, and if you help me out with some stats I could help.
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Re: so then ....

Postby steban » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:01 pm

Just to clarify what I sent from GoDaddy-

There is no limit to file storage. We easily could have 500GB of mp3s.

However, the MySQL databases must be 1GB top size, but you can have unlimited number of them.

Normally mp3s are stored in folders, and the database is used to store the data on them- name, band, upload date, and file name/location. That database would be hardpressed to ever reach 1GB in size. It more likely would be tops 100MB.

The database and site development Gregg provides is worth money, as well as the site maintenance you provide. It would be nice if those positions could be paid.

In any given month, we might exceed the bandwidth, if there were a lot of uploads and a lot of downloads. Bandwidth is basically the total amount of GB a month uploaded and downloaded. It certainly could grow, but we are so low now we are barely a blip.

If we added ads to our pages, any large upturn in site hits including downloads would generate revenue, a good thing! It is certainly a good idea to go that route. People are used to it.

If we were a video hosting site our numbers would be 100 times higher, so we are in great shape there.

I am willing to guesstimate we could spend $100-200/year for hosting, probably lock that rate in for 2-3 years by paying up front, and about the same figure for all the extraneous things, domain names, SSL, shopping cart, which is along the lines of what you are saying.

Gregg may be the most qualified to find a new home, but we could lock in a 1 to 2 year deal for a doable number, and maybe we could attempt to make some money, enough to cover the basics on a regular basis.

I had mentioned I already have a site space, which I could use or simply expand or get a separate space, and I'm serious. I'd rather not spend $500 right now, but $250 is not a problem.

And I'm not stuck on GoDaddy, only know what they offer is pretty competitive. A better deal elsewhere would be welcome.

Maybe we use our audiopolis city metaphor and have a city council and mayor, and for the right donation you can have a seat at the table!
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Re: so then ....

Postby Krispy » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:00 pm

Well I wish I had something to contribute, but I think it's all been covered.

I stopped reviewing, maybe temporarily, because there wasn't really anyone listening. I could do something more productive with that 30 minutes.

My AP business plan is to close down the rest of the internet except for Hentai and 9/11 conspiracy sites.
Then we'd have their full attention.
To save time, assume I know everything
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Re: so then ....

Postby ingolee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:42 pm

Oh well, my 2 cents, (and yeah I'm no expert)

The choices:

1. It goes on like it is, a "vanity" site. Hosting is no problem, heck the activity level now, it would fit in your back pocket, your needs are small, as long as the host is "scalable" it's no problem. You have an offer on the table already anyway.

2. You delete it, or let the host do it when they get around to it.

3. You sell it. Whoever owns the domain name is the legal owner. I haven't done a "whois" search but that's easy to do. Ownership also involves possession of admin rights, links to database and code modules etc. obviously. Why do you have to sell it, not give it away? Because without a verifiable "transaction" ownership is unclear and problems will result. What is it worth? Based on current levels of activity, not much. You don't really "own" the songs, there's no patent or copyright on the concept as far as I know. The real value here I believe is that membership list with email addresses that you have. Yeah, they're all DOA as it sits, but if you approach them directly with a good business plan and a good marketing plan, that could easily change. Active members will make the whole thing work like it is supposed to, and they are also the best marketers of all, the old "word-of-mouth" thing.

If you walked into a bank and asked for a business loan, they would want to see your business plan and your marketing plan. Then they would ask how much money do you want to borrow. If you said "I'm going to need hundreds of dollars, maybe 5 or 600!" they would laugh at you and throw you out of the bank because obviously you are not serious about this.

I'm happy to have AP/AR the way it is, I'll drop by and spout off once and while, it's cool. And if it actually turns into something serious, I might even be willing to support it with time and money, who knows?
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Re: so then ....

Postby steban » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:17 pm

As a means of fundraising, we can use the city metaphor and have

Mayor - cj Denecia (to be paid if ever site made a profit)
City Manager - Gregg (to be paid if ever site made a profit)
Key to the City - $300 in lifetime donations or 300 lifetime reviews
City Council Members - $100 in annual donations or 100 reviews annually
Lifetime Charter Members - $50 in the next 60 days
Citizens - Free

What City Council Members get is special mention on the City Hall page
- Picture
- Donation amount
- Links
- Public announcements
- Voting record and motions made etc etc

Key to the City gets a lifetime seat on the Council, and an additional vote if $100 donation in current year

Citizens get to attend and speak out at Town Hall Meetings.

Donations can be made-
- No strings attached
- For transferrable upload credits
- For transferrable fast track review credits


There are four things the site requires-
1 - Money to operate
2 - Songs
3 - Reviews
4 - Good songs and good reviews

The contest requires-
$5 or 5 reviews to enter a song
$5 or 5 reviews to fast track for a review

Otherwise a song will be reviewed in a first come first served basis in its group.

At the end of a year, reviewers will get bonus credits based on their average reviewer rating.
The percentage above 80% will be added to their starting point for the next year.
Also they will get special recognition for being a top reviewer.

Songs which make it to the next round will also get 20 upload/fast track credits.

All the above is a development idea which we would need to add pages and code for eventually. However, in the beginning we can kickstart it manually. My gut feeling is more people will participate with money if we just give them a little recognition.

It is easy to predict that if nobody came when it was all free, even fewer will come now that we charge. Even if that is true, we have nothing to lose by not giving it away for free, and our vanity site goes on if we raise enough money.

I'd like to see who all will step up and save our site, and I'd like to see those who do get some formal recognition. When they said on the radio the other night, "and thanks to Steve in Montgomery for donating $60", which they repeated about 4 times, I felt pretty darn proud, even if that was a mere $5/month on my debit card.

People are still reviewing, too! I just got a review from Nervosa, who also has 84 reviews to date, not too shabby!

You know, if the web had a better place for musicians like us, it would be great, but it doesn't, and we have a great place, just in need of a plan to keep on truckin' .
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Re: so then ....

Postby cjdenecia » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:21 am

.... I'm listening and nearly ready to bring this to gregg's attention.

btw - beyond the brief mention of ads, not much has been said regarding marketing. or staff (I'm thinking mostly developer/maintenance costs) compensation in monetary terms. you want somebody on "call" for immediate results? you gotta pay 'em. and not in conceptual value. cash.

fundraising should, in even less than an ideal world, include provisions for those things.


btw - along a legal point, the domain is owned and registered by a CJ Denecia. tho I consider gregg co-owner as the actual code of the site is his intellectual property. morally, it's not quite that simple but .....
you can't handle the truth.

nor do you want to ...
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Re: so then ....

Postby ingolee » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:42 am

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Re: so then ....

Postby steban » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:17 am

If we compare ourselves with KPFT, the public radio station, it is a larger but still small endeavor, and most of the people are volunteers, but I'm pretty sure they have one guy who is paid to do very technical duties. We may one day have a cash cow app that changes the financial dynamics radically, but until that materializes we are basically a not for profit establishment. My hope is we can make a deal to keep you two on in your current capacity, and agree to some compensation for more web development as ideas are hashed out, probably in some secrecy, and fund raise to achieve each project.

Unlike a pure nonprofit, I would like us to offer shares in the site that would kick in when and if the site ever made a profit as part of investment in services or money. It would have to be enough to encourage a successful, profitable outcome, but not so much one might be happy just with the paycheck.

Let us suppose we can secure 2-3 years hosting and services for $500 without any new development and minimal maintenance. Why not offer those who give money or services a small stake in future profits? A small percent share, say a tenth of a percent for every $100 of services or money. That would raise $100,000 seed money theoretically. That doesn't sound like much, but if the site made a large profit one year, say $100,000 after expenses, that would equal $100 per share. Not bad for a $100 investment! And that could happen year after year. That would be a thousand shares to distribute among members.

It is a ground floor opportunity, and the Partovis probably made a lot of money off GB actually with the iLike spinoff.

It would be magnificent if we made a contract that protected the stakeholders, say one that required a majority of City Council Members to vote to sell the site to FaceBook for a hundred million, that sort of thing, and end any further dividends. I'm not an expert in this sort of thing, but we can make it desirable to hold onto one's shares, to not cash out entirely.

So I may be dreaming too much, yes, we likely will never make big profits or any profit at all, but at least we have a business plan.

So why will Ingo or Rick or HUD or Gregg or CJ or Kim or the rest want to get in on this? First, you will have a seat at the table that will decide what we do next. Second, we will have our vanity site for the foreseeable future at worst. We all could be part of something musicians of the world will benefit from. And we might make some money. And you get entry/fast track review credits as a bonus.

A plan like this fits nicely with our original mission statement. We are not greedy, we are turning to musicians for financial help, and if we make it somehow we will generously help everyone.
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Re: so then ....

Postby HUD » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:52 pm

As I returned across the lands I'd known
I recognized the fields where I'd once played
I had to stop in my tracks for fear
Of walking on the mines I'd laid
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Re: so then ....

Postby cjdenecia » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:30 pm

I've sent the man a note to take a look at this discussion. he'll either get back to me OR he might simply pipe in here. at any rate, we are now looking at the offers .... and ideas. and that's all I've got right now.
you can't handle the truth.

nor do you want to ...
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Re: so then ....

Postby pharquartt » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:46 am

in your latest tirade,you just illustrated the underlying problem, cj.

good luck on your site.
now is the infinite opposite
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Re: so then ....

Postby cjdenecia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:40 am

you can't handle the truth.

nor do you want to ...
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Re: so then ....

Postby Krispy » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:00 am

To save time, assume I know everything
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